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African Lion vs Grizzly Bear

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Silver Prime

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My Birthday Is: 99/99/99

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: African Lion vs Grizzly Bear  Reply with quote

I made a mistake in the title, I was going to name it African lion vs all bears, but I'll just leave it at this for now.

-African Lion vs Grizzly Bears

The lies of the great Bear Almanac

We'll cover all the lies stemed from the bias people of california, and un-cover the real truth in what happen in the famous fight of the Lion Parnell againts the Grizlly bear Ramadan, and exploit all the internet bear fanatics who keep bragging such ignorance claims/lies thinking bears can just dominate a african lion.

The truth about the fight

One of the bears was said to be 850 pounds, and this man states that all the stories of the fight in other books were all false accusations and over-exaggerations…;ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

The lion was more agile, had the bear in a pinned hold near the throat, and showed more treachery, he also bloodyed up the bear and the bear had evident wounds all over his head area.

[The animals fought desperatly for two rounds contuary to expectations neither was killed.

So wheres the part the bear killed the lion? All the artciles mentioned th bear throwing the lion 3x, but look what other sources said about the lion/bear:

The bear secured as the lion's antagonist is called Ramadam. He is a California silver tipped grizzly and one of the largest of his kind. He has the record of having killed two of his keepers in one day, and his fighting qualities are undeniable. "Though in the third fall, as in most of those that followed, Ramadam was on top, the lion was getting the most effective work by a style of infighting that must have been uncomfortable in the extreme.After this the fighting was tame and the contest was declared a draw.

~Coshocton Daily Age Sunday, February 26, 1905 Coshocton, Ohio

Three says the bear was fresh from the mountains, one says Reno nevada, some say the rockys:

The Verdict

All of these books have now been exploited, since they said the bear killed the lion, Bullshit...

~California Grizzly
~The Time of the angel
~On the old west coast
~The Hunt
~The Great bear almanac
~The California Gold rush
~California Miners

There are conflicting storys upon weights, the records that said the bear dominated the lion, the authors trying to degrade the lion saying the lion was a killer and the bear wasnt (lies) the bear killed 2 keepers as well, the lion was wild, bear was captive raised (lies) the lion was from algeria and the bear was from california rockys as a silver tip, both were wild, did any of them weigh the bear? No most were hear say, but a lion with a full head of mane will look just as large as a 1,000 pound bear no matter what, thats the whole purpose of his mane, to make him appear bigger than he really is, but the fact is...why would they bill the fight the bear was one of the biggest in captivity? Of course then he was large, since 750 lbs is just about there average, not maximum. And some articles even has the bear at nearly 2,000 pounds:

The large pit dog in the ground to hold the huge grizzly bear, Monarch, is completed. He will now have an opportunity of putting himself in good condition in his proposed fight with the man-eating lion, Parnell. A good many people are under the impression the bear would stand no show. Well, if one saw the size of this monster, be would think the show was all on his side. He is really the largest bear ever bald in captivity, and is as furious as he appears. In my opinion the trick lion, Parnell, notwithstanding bis reputation for killing people, would soon be made into mincemeat. The Monarch weighs in the neighborhood of 1750 pounds, besides baying claws' fully four inches in length. Perhaps a fresh lion from the wilds of Africa might succeed in besting tbe bruin, but the belief existing in regard to tbe lions at the grounds is that they would be no match for tbe mighty roamer of the Sierras. Colonel Boone is now arranging with tbe authorities for the fight. Should tbe fight take place, which is doubtful, the assurance is that one of the most desperate battles that ever took place in the anuals of the country will be seen at the lion arena on the grounds.

My Opinion: The 750-850 or 1,750 pound Male Grizzly did less then medicore for his size.

~The 500-650 pound african lion, exceptionally well fighting a much bigger advesery, he bloodied up the bear and all articles state even the bias ones...that the bear had visual wounds from the lion. The lion showed more agility which shows it wouldn't have been so easy as just grabbing a lion who in terms was almost as equally as strong to have put up such a fight to a larger and heavier foe.

My Opinion: The 500-650 pound Male African lion did well.

So this speaks well in a posibility a average sized lion stalemated a bear almost 2,000 lbs, this breaks any myth that a large bear will just dispatch a lion in seconds like all the phoney quotas floating around that bears can crush a lions skull in two, the lions skull on average is bigger than the average bears, and his bone density is only rivaled by the kodiak, in someplaces the lions bones were found denser than any bear alive, making him more durable internally, density is the difference between a hollow pcp plastic pipe and a steel pipe filled into its core completely.

2.Boltimore the lion kills Russian Grizzley

And from a different source:

3.Lion kills bruin the grizzly bear

4.Lioness kills atlas bear in the roman arena

5.lion kills 2 leopards an fights/stalemates bear

Liokos is not allowed to retire into his cage this time, further infuriating him. The final match is now on between him and the heavily favored bear named Shardik. Diana bets against Shardik hoping that he will be killed. She despises Senator Palladius for making a gift of him to her. The bastard has hated her ever since she ignored his amorous advances during the Saturnalia festivities a couple of months ago. She hopes that the senator loses heavily on this bout. She has learned from her spies that he has bet heavily on Shardik. She has sent her agents around the city to find out what animal the senator is terrified of in order to give him that as gift in return.

Shardik enters the arena and the two animals cautiously eye each other at a distance. Liokos begins his attack by crawling very close to the ground, appearing to be as small as possible to his opponent. Liokos charges him without any further hesitation. Shardik gets a paw up in time to prevent Liokos from getting him by the neck. This has just cost him his paw and part of his foreleg now ripped to shreds. He falls backward with the lion falling on top of him and going to town with his lower claws on the hapless bear's belly. The bear tries desperately to kick him off with his three remaining limbs but by now Liokos has him by the throat and quickly dispatches him with a violent shake of his great maned head. The crowd explodes into applause.

The winner of the Venationes is Liokos the lion, owned by Arminius Reccanellus. The only ones happier than him are the bookies who took in millions of cesterces on the favorite Shardik...and of course Diana who has finally gotten rid of the hated Shardik
Humbly submitted from the stands

7.Young lion stale mates siberian bear;color=32&ext=gif&key=

8.Toronto (Canada) Globe
[This could be a real account or a what if sceneario, I'll try and find the whole article for credability.]


Huge cover up, it seems Parnell fought two bears, he stale mated Ramadan, and killed a 850 pound bear named Siskiyou previous to that fight:


Lion breaks grizzly bears back with one swipe:

There are only two species of bear in the Park, the black and the grizzly. Of these the black tear is the less timid. At least we never encountered a grizzly upon the road.—to our entire satisfaction,—while we saw many black beai-s. We did see | grizzlies, though, at the "Bear • Feeding Grounds" which are maintained near the big hotel and tourist camp near Old Faithful, and they are an impressive looking beast. While the black bear rarely attains a weight ofmore than 400 pounds, the grizzly when full grown generally weighs around 1.000 pounds. And his strength is in proportion to his size. A few years ago an Englishman who had hunted lions In Africa ventured, upon a visit here, to express the opinion that an African lion could whip a grizzly in fair fight. His' opinion was so warmly disputed by partisans of the grizzly that he determined to settle the matter. He brought a full grown lion to this Park and it was put into a cage'along with a grizzly. The lion at once sprang to the attack^ leaping upon the bear's' back and trying to dig in with claws and teeth. The grizzly sincerely shook him off. The lion again sprang and was again shaken off. A third time it was shaken off, but this time the lion, annoyed, gave it a swipe with one of its paws, and broke its back. killing it with a single blow.

11.) Look Parnell the lion could have possibly killed 2 bears, 2 in one day, Siskiyou, and possbily the second was Monarch the 1,750 lb bear, it states that parnell is up to his old tricks (suggesting hes killed a bear before) click on the PDF:

12.) Barbary lion kills european brown bear with one swipe:

(The King of Sweden arranged a fight with a bear and barbary lion)

The London and Paris Observer: Or Chronicle of Literature, Science, and the Fine Arts, Volume 6

What was remained of one the Kings lions taxidermied:

The king, of whom I have just narrated so many anecdotes, had a very large lion‘ presented to him by one of the Barbary powers. There were at this time several bears kept by the butchers about the shambles in Stockholm, and his majesty, being anxious to witness a rencontre between one of these animals and the lion, ordered them to be brought into contact with each other. lu the lion's den there were two apartments, into one of which the bear was introduced. On the lion, however, getting access to that animal, he found him posted in a corner; when, going up to him, he gave him a slight rap with his paw, as if to see of what materials his visiter was composed. The bear, not liking this kind of salutation, growled, and endeavoured to parry it. This made the lion angry: when, ‘ with one- fell swoop,‘ with -his paw, as the story goes, he laid the bear dead at his feet.

The King of swedens lion embeded:

This is not hard to belive, since the lion holds the strongest blow of the paw compared to any carnivorian in the animal Kingdom:

-African Lion vs Polar Bears

1. lion named brutus kills polar bear.

2.1902 lion named roosevlet mauls peary the polar bear.

3. lion kills polar bear 1955 By Alfred Court.[Book]Pages 131-132,

Although it is some, the day of the arisen accident to Artis, the repetition extended itself to noon.  For five hours of clock Anton and me had lived in the cage to the big cats.  One will believe me maybe if I assert that we in went out exhausted, broken fatigue.  The next day this lut the turn of the tigers, then I practiced alternation: a day the lions, a day the tigers.  The constant concern of the tamer has 'to be first to assure itself that every beast perfectly possesses l'a.b.c. work that it will have to execute.  That obtain, it can risk "the mixture".  First the lions and the meet tigers, but that demanded a months and half of repetitions, then the leopards, the Danish dogs, at last the bears of the Himalayas.  In the month of August, I began, as early as delivery, the training of the six polar bears.  To the first essay of "mixes" the one of them was égorgé by a lion.  It immediately was replaced, thus besides that the aggressor that dut to yield his place to another lion less hargneux

Another lion attacks a polar bear…

On the big pyramid, a white bear, neighbor of a lion mordit the latter, the lion jumps on the bear, both of them ran down of their perchoir, rolled to the ground and immediately a tiger jumped them over.  Instantly Drilled e burst, with his habitual music of blows of mouth, of roarings, of hilarious claws the air.  Helped of Schultz that I had taken with me in the cage, I arrived to bring back peace.

4. lion kills polar bear Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, [Book]
page 204-205.

When fights break out, always protect the weaker animal, for I have seen a small leopard kill a large tiger, a lion kill a polar bear.

5.1893 Pezon in limoges, Leo the lion maul’s polar bear

6. Velox the polar bear may have killed 2 african lions

7.) Two female lions beat up polar bear, without medical attention the bear would have blead to death, judging by the artifact, the polar bear was 3x the lionesses size:


4 lions take on 3 polar bears:


Lion almost kills polar bear:

10.) Lion bowls over polar bear:

-African Lion vs Black/Sloth/Asiatic Bears

1. lion kills big bear
Poor Sampo, the recently acquired sloth bear at Mundy's Zoo, is no more, because Bully, a pugnacious young lion literally "cut him dead"

2. Daytona Beach Morning Journal - Apr 6, 1950
Calif A mother bear, defending her two cubs, fought a losing battle with a powerful African lion early yesterday at the Alameda County Zoo.

3. black bear kils lion


The big lioness queenie, that has been ill for a week... was permitted to go into the runway for a little excersize yesterday afternoon the same time the bear was there...Bruno didn't like the intruder in his domain when queenie was passing, the bear struck her with his huge paw, she retreated and the bear followed her. She crouched in a corner, and he raised himself on his haunches to strike her again. The lioness circled to one side and dodged the blow. Then with bristling hair and tail stiff, she shot one of her great paws and caught bruno in the back of the ear felling him to the floor.

The force of the first blow from queenies paw really settled bruno, it was what a boxer would call a short-arm blow with alot of steam behind it...when the attendents came rushing in queenie sprang off and ran into her cage, where upon bruno had his head crushed and neck broken.



7.) Fight In Boston Zoo Between Two Mddened Beasts Bostock's zoo, in Boston, was the scene of a vicious sanguinary encounter between a full grown lioness and a big black bear a few days ago. Poor bruin was killed, but not before he had convinced his fierce feline antagonist that a hand to hand fight with a husky bear is far from being a picnic. The keepers at the zoo, all of whom havehad long experience in the care of wild animals, pronounce the encounter between the beasts one of the most sanguinary and ferocious they have ever witnessed. The lioness gained the victory, but it was only after a long and terrific struggle, during which the fur flew in such quantities that the bloody floor was carpeted with it. The cage looked like a slaughter house after the battle. The lioness has been but recently secured by Mr. Bostock, and the bear was also a new arrival at the zoo. They were put in adjoining cages only the day before the death struggle, and they began immediately to snarl at one another...

Deadly enmity. They were both angry and nervous over their new and unaccustomed quarters and surroundings and were terribly irritable. They paced back and forth in their cages, stealthily watching each other with fierce and gleaming eyes. When they, met at the bars between the cages, as they frequently did, the lioness would snarl, spit and show her fangs with all the ferocity of her feline nature. The bear would rise on his haunches, growl a fierce answer to the challenge and strike at the lioness with such viciousness and venom that the bars of the cage settled in their sockets. Unfortunately the keepers did not take warning by these encounters, and early the other morning the beasts came together at the barrier again. There was a fierce snarl by the lioness, and her raised paw as quick as a flash shot out and caught bruin on his tenderest part, the nose. The lioness' sharp claws tore bruin's flesh and drew blood. The bear's fierce nature showed itself at once, and, with a deep growl, he threw himself at the bars and reached between them and with a blow, of his huge paw sent his adversary sprawling in the farthermost corner of her cage. With- a snarling shriek of fury, the lioness sprang to her feet and launched herself with catapult force at the bars, which gave way under the terrific impact like putty.

Scratchingand tearing her way through the bent and broken bars, the immense cat crouched in a corner for an instant, and then, with a quick spring and roar of rage, her little and sinewy form shot out like a yellow streak for his bearship. Bruin was not unprepared for the encounter. Standing upright on his haunches as bears do when cornered, he suddenly shuffled to one side as the lioness sprang at him, and, with a quick slap, but with the force of a trip hammer, the vicious feline was knocked against the cage with a resounding thud. The bear slowly and cumbersomely went down on his four feet and looked around at color=red]his[color] enemy, but only to see a meteor-like flash as the lioness, who had recovered her feet with the quickness of thought, bounded on to his broad back. Roaring with anger and agony, the bear rolled over on his back to dislodge his adversary, but with the quickness of 1 lightning flash the lioness pounced on to the upturned belly of poor bruin, and, with her hind legs working like piston rods, her claws tore through fur, skin and flesh until the bear was disemboweled, The lioness' glistening teeth, were also deeply imbedded in the bear's throat, and, with a horrible crunching, snarling and snapping, she drank his life's blood. The bear made a last despairing effort to tear himself away. With a mighty heave, blowing thd bloody foam from his gaping jaws, he struggled gamely, but ineffectually. Soon a tremor of the body, a kicking tremble of his legs, and it was all over.

~The Fort Wayne News 22 May 1902 › Page 6


It seems there are more times lions won than the bears, lions have killed the most aggresive and agile bears (asiatic black, and sloth bears) to the most formidable bears (Canadian, Eruasian, and North American brown bears) basically European Grizzlys and Kodiaks, to the most tallest, largest and heaviest of bears (Polar bears).

Last edited by Silver Prime on Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:28 am; edited 23 times in total
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Silver Prime

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject:  

lol I just read Carnivora's take on the hypothetical bout of 2 male lions vs 1 kodiak...

What I find funny is the repeative down scaling and bias cherry picking of weights bear enthusiast always...and I mean always do, which is mention max weights for the bear an only average or below average weights of the lion, like...

Lion 400 pounds<<<<Bear 1,600 pounds

Thats just how fanatics are now days, pure B.S...Not to mention 90% of all large bear weights are only estimated, heres books showing how badly beasr get over hyped to be:

Check this one out, black bears of 95-115 lbs (Weighed) then had idiots estimate them as 400-4,000 pounds:

More over exagerations the farther away a record stated bear is away from the scale, they just so happens to be heavier:

Most people who kill a bear never weigh it but they are still quick to say blah blah blah more estimates:

And same here:

Kamchtka bears weigh 1,500 lbs but I've never weighed one lol:

Bear fanatics; stop the bull shit...a small car weighs 1,500 pounds, the visual appeal of a brown bear is not that of the same size of a car.
And brown bears are big but polar bears have been documented being killed then any other bear from the lion, and you can see that the polar bear is by far taller, larger, heavier and more powerful than the brown bear:

And polar bears have dominated grizzly bears in menageries:


So that speaks volumes of the Lion > Polar bear accounts.
I guess manes like these have the lion estimated at 1,500 pounds too then eh?

lol Since a lion at that statuses mane covers basically 70% of his body look at that^, with a height of over 4 feet 5.5 inches taller than the tiger, making him sub-par with the largest of kodiaks...but ahh, when we have estimates in place lions are only 300-500 when its actually a 600-700 pound lion at the same time 100 pound black bears get estimated at 4,000 pounds. XD XD XD XD

The truth is, the average brown bear is relatively the same size of the average lion, with the bear having the extra weight in his lower half near the rump and stomach area:

Look at this nearly maneless lion, he is almost as tall as the brown bear:

The mane increases his size 2 times over, so a full maned lion with a belly mane will look of similar size since afterall, the bear has thick fur as well, shave that off, and you'd get a less impressive bear:

There is no deception like that with lions, as they are comprimised of all muscle:

All photos showed the lion similar in size. There is of course going to be a difference in weight, but its not going to be significant, since lions can get big as well:

Lion tips the scale at over 750 lbs:

The brown bears competition/hunting prey's largest animal is the Bison, which he rarely takes on, while the lion has the Buffalo, Giraffe, Hippo, Rhino and Elephant under his belt:

In this case as for African lion vs Kodiak bear; one on one all the bear has is weight; and its not significant, what do I mean? Heres cases where the smaller kin of the lion the puma has killed the bear:

Puma kills a bear:

Puma kills bear;color=32&ext=gif&key=

If the lion should openly approach his prey and challenge it to combat, his intended victim would immediately take to flight. In a fight to the death, the mountain lion is more game than the black bear. He will fight to the last breath, when the black bear will quit and cover his head with his paws and bawl like a calf.

Phillip R. Goodwins~Book of hunting records:

Puma kills thousand pound bear:

Dont let the wiki fool you, these pumas can get formidably big too:

As they arnt afraid to takle animals bigger than bears:

There you go, the fact remains that the throat is still vulnerable no matter how fat the bear gets, the fatter the slower to react and apply evasive manuvering to an animal that can speed blitz and leap instantanously in all directions, getting on the side, jumping on the back, leaping for the throat, crippling the bears front or hind limbs, blinding the bear with a flury of razor sharp claws digging into his face, yes these things add up, as to the more aggresive animal will stick it out all the way through, the more passive and fearful animal will not be consice, accurate and aware of what to do, he will just be in a state of confusion with tremendous pain and will opt to run, this gives the crucial amount of time for the puma/lion to apply what mother nature has gifted predators in doing...the death touch (Throat/spine/neck grab). Again the bear is no more durable than a moose, elk, deer, what ever...the throat and stomach area are instant kill places, its like having two people trying to kill each other with fire arms, one wielding a pistol, the other a canon, whats the use of the guy with the canon if he has to take longer to load, aim and fire, the man with a pistol can kill the canon wielding human just the same, only faster, more accurate and with the same method, a simple pulling of the trigger. Yes, and when I say fat... i mean... fat, they're primary job is to survive winter in hybernation, bears don't need to have humans to force feed them in order to get obese, they have berries, honey and grass that is more abundent than any carnivoras meat paradise on earth, and ohh yeah...they don't need to exzert any energy like the big cats do daily, grizzly bears have fish that literally jumps into there mouths.

Lets list some points in how speed, dexterity, agility, manuverability, and athletisim in a can he do this question? Regardless of how much you think just because the animal is bigger that does not enhance there mental state, the puma/lion are born killers, they need to do it every week of there life, they are pre-programed to kill, they are without a dought the pitbulls in this fight, they bring more game, so...

Scenario: The lion is getting the better of the fight in the beggining, bloodying up the bear and causing great discomfort to where the bear opts to run, in this scenario, the bear will turn and make the other way.

Scenario: The bear is getting the better of the fight, not only keeping the puma/lion at bay, but pressing the fight and is defensively putting on an impentrable game, the lion/puma, now who feels he has used up to much energy and feels like he will lose the fight, opts to live and fight another day, so he makes off.

*  The Puma, being faster and more agile can wigle out of any scenario with a burst of flurrys and jetting up a tree, the puma/lion can leap across rockerys 10-18 feet away, the cat can out run the bear, with superior dexterity the chances of dashing away leaves the puma with being safe from a back attack from the inferior speed of the bear.

*  The bear cannot jump up trees to escape, the bear cannot evade the puma by leaping off obstacles like rockery cliffs and mountain slopes, the bear cannot outrun the puma/lion for he is slower, turning around will give all the cause and effect of a prey~predator scenario to where instincts will overide the puma, his game will kick in and finish the bear off where basically every living mammal is vulnerable in, the throat and spine.

- Hence how advantages come into play, the puma can in more chances get away from a bloody duel, the bear cannot.

This is key to understand, since afterall all those who debates this subject makes false claims and resorts to pusedoscience, the fact and the matter is, bears are not designed for swiping, I havent seen a single offensive swipe from a large brown bear yet, just because they are slightly bigger and heavier doesnt mean they have ever been proven to strike harder than a lion, a rhino is bigger and heavier than a lion, would it be logical to say the rhino can strike with his hoove faster, more accurate and stronger than a lion? No, because they arnt designed to fight in this method, the physiology times the animals stance proves so, humans can elongate them selves better than bears in a two point stance, both turn and rotate the hips and shoulder joints better, an so pound for pound the human will strike harder, how many mike tyson knock outs did you see a bear do? Thats because they arnt strikers and the fact that they are quadripeds, so it is fully against what there physiology is made for, since he is natrually elongated, it would have been better for bear to adopt a foward lungeing whack to generate there strength, but even big cats like the tiger has failed to grasp this concept...why? Because they are not conditioned and frequently fighting as much as the lion, the lion through evolution of constant fighting has evolved this way, hence there are tons of anecdotes and documentation of them fighting and the substance emits and shows it, in there own specific-conflicts and appearntly in there interspecific conflicts as well. The bear extends his arms merely to pull you in and grapple, hold you down and bite you all over, the lion hits you to stun you long enough to apply a death grip or kill you with the powerful blow all in its self, the lion utilizes his physiology in the three point stance, which compliments his strikeing, the bear standing up straight not only puts his center of gravity (Balance off) making it easier to knock him down, but it strips in half both his speed and power of his strikes, also his manverability to turn is shorten to only a slow 180 degree system, something a animal who is a one on one handicap who like the lion is used to fighting multiple oppoents simultaneously,  he remains low striking only in 90 degree angles, making it easier to turn on the dime which compliments evasive manuvering, the lion is both muhamid ali and mike tyson rolled up all in one, superior footwork in evasion, taunting and timesing that with speed and power specifically in striking.

How bears fight:

-Unmatched Wrestlers and Grapplers
-Emense power in pushing and tugging
-Hardly ever swiping more for defensive almost never offensively
-His larger lower half where the mass is distributed fighting bipedal

As you can see by the Gifs, bears do not strike (As Clyde beatty 40 year lion and bear observer Stated), they use there paws by pressing up against the other bear to support the position to bite at the shoulder and back of the head, both places the lion would be protected by his mane, bears do no not make any effort to elude, parry and evade as much as the lion does, they are rather powerful for pressing all the weight down when they crash into each other but they are quite clumsy at it, maybe not clumsy, but more of...not tactical.


How lions fight:

-A pro in the clinche biting straight for the throat
-Tactical fighter in parying, eluding and evading
-Uses the 3 point stance to increase power
-Is the pound for pound hardest striking carnivore on the planet.

The lion fights different from all other cats, he usually anchors him self down with one paw, this stablizes his balance making him alot more harder to knock over, while at the same time this stance increases his striking power because it is in a motion of a haymaker:

That tactics (Only used by the lion) is just a baiting system to size up his opponent since they are not the strikes that will lead to breaking of bones, like a boxer he will taunt his advesary in and minor swipes will lead to dropping bombs incoperating the lunge which inhertia increases his blows into even mighty'r hits no bear or tiger can achive since they stand in bi-pedal too long they are weak jabs and flurrys which rapid simultaneous hits are not patented in doing, not as explosive enough in droping one good Bomb that can lead to concusions which haymakers are for, like here hitting the tiger so hard he rikashays and bounces off the ground:

Lions use this tactics and fighting approuch, they have evolved this way through fighting more often, getting a deeper learning in the art of war, also aided by there evolving with bigger, broader, taller and stronger shoulders that gives them a harder swipe/swat, having a average of 5.5 inches taller at the shoulder than pathera tigris, and this protains to both male and female lions:

What sport can lead to more knock outs, sumo wrestling or Ultimate fighting?

I rest my case. lol

And as I was about to get at is; the comparing the two animals, you cant go by one catagorie which is weight to determine the fight, there are countless of other catagories.

Whole statistics:
-Opinons from experts
-Mental an physical enteractions in fighting formidable opponents.
-Historical artifacts
-Actual accounts

The bear actualy only has one score card in those catagories, which is weight. While the lion has slightly and even greatly more leverages an advantages, which can range from...

1.)Bigger teeth/Fangs= More powerful Jaws More efficent/faster kill.

2.)Sharper/Retractable claws=For not only slashing like the bear but gripping an hanging on better; in pulling him down or grappling, the bears claws being slightly thiner and longer makes then more suspect to break in a fighting scenario since there primary purpose was to dig up scrubs, clams and msucles, under the ground, more of a tool, like a shovel, still leathal, but the lions is not made for a tool, its made spcifically for killing hence the reason why they are retracable is to remain more upper in the paw, less grinding on the ground keeps them razor sharp, nail gun (Tool) can kill a person, but its only secondary, a scimitar/dagger is specifically for killing its first priorty, the lions claws unlike the bears will offer more control while promoting more pain:

3.)A larger skull on average=which could lead to a harder bite/breaking bones easyer per bite, the throat is not the only place that can render or call the fight; feet, back limbs and front limbs can be injured quickly by a single bite as well allowing for pro-longed auto-death if the attacker is aware of the injuries he inflicted.

Siberian tigers skull much wider than polar bears skull:

And yet even the asiatic lions skull is much larger than the tigers skull:

Skull sizes on average= Lion>Tiger>Bear

4.)Better durability where it counts (Mane) which is by far thicker, longer; denser an more protective in its main killing spots of the neck an sometimes the belly; shielding him from throat an dissembowling moves better on average, allowing for better durability an endurance in high-pace movements. The bears thick fur is no thicker than a few inches; while the lions mane can be 1-2 feet, thick and long.

5.)The lion is superior in all the means of the word an concept of speed= Dexterity; Agility, rapid paced movements and or just pure speed, all which has extreme leverages; bears even when they fight, its evident of sumo wrestlers push an shove while standing, which that alone leaves in too much room for error compared to a constant back fighter; up an up fighter; gound an pound wrestler who is in rapid pace movements the lion can stand just as tall as record breaking bears as well:

Just as tall on there Hind legs

More explosive, faster in dexterity, evasive and agility

Like the lion and bear, the bear will be slightly larger, but the lion is more aggressive as shown all the historical records show the lion is the usual one to attack first, that could better his chances in killing the bear quickly with one of his signature moves the throat bite, as we know the more aggressive/willing to throw first, will get a better chance at winning:


Small wolf pack keeps lone bear at bay:

Same type of scenario, totally different outcome, even though there were more hyenas who are much larger and mre powerful than wolves:

7.) Mentally and physical condition; the lion is far better at fighting/killing in general, since the lion is one of few carnivores that are social; social would impliment more interactions on average, more fighting would mean you will be better at it, more killing would mean you would be more conditioned for the hunt; while bears can sway back an forth from eating meat and then vegetation, the lion is a true carnivore and is constantly kept game in killing. The lion has the better acrobatics and atheltisim for the bear is never recorded jumping which the lion can clear 15 feet possibly jumping right over the bear and landing on his back then breaking the bears neck:

8.) Experts opinions

Frank Buck;color=32&ext=gif&key=

But in such a fanciful fight, it is generally thought that the cat's lightning speed and deadly teeth would conquer the lumbering bear. money on the cat."

9.) Artifacts:

10.) Lastly, the actual accounts/historical records; show that the lion is ahead on the score cards, winning just about triple the amount the bear has won, as shown as the first post.

Bears are the largest terristrial predators of the last melliniems, but if you at the chart of all the bears sizes compared to the average guys height:

You can see that lions like Simba; can rival the size of the second largest bear to have ever exist:

And lions like simba (826 lbs) are being shown to be not as uncommon as most would think, many other lions rival and even surpasses his size and weight, such as Woody (800 lbs); Rutledge (806 lbs); Rhino (850 lbs); Prince (900 lbs); Peter jacksons lion (930 lbs); lion named ali (1,000 lbs) Ethopian courts lion (1,000 lbs) Sultan (1,000 lbs) and more, all who are larger, taller and have bigger manes making the lion look 50% larger than he really is, (50% increasage of the mane + 1,000 lbs + being 5.5 inches taller than tigers) = lions are 1,700 lbs in visually what we see when/if they are flush next to the other of both large specimens, in other words if Sultan was to stand next to jaipur the largest tiger in the world at 1025 pounds, sultan would look much larger since he would have been taller ( has a large barbary like mane that extends to the belly making him look much larger than Jaipur.

It seems earth has set that course of rank through out its ages as the lion is the superior monarch of the predator world even of cave bears and cave lion days supports that ranking held strong:

Not much has changed, atleast the modern accounts show the lion as the usual victor, the only things that changed is that bears have shrunk in size, while lions have grown not only in numbers but in durability, he has evolved as the most durable predator developing a mane with some covering almost there whole body with a battle armor in places that can lead to instant death if they are attacked there.

As for the yuppies who use B.S accounts like Bears can break the neck of a fighting bull in a single chop; an then say the feat can be even easyer on a lion; you can link those ignorant dumbasses to this link;

Bears were destroyed almost every fight in a fair bout againt a bull; so there power wise is little to nothing since the science take on bone density showed lions have the same ratio as brown bears.

The Bottom line is, the top reason anyone favors the bear is due to size/mass factors, lions can bring things down double the masses of the largest record breaking bears:

While most people 'know' that elephants are immune to predation thanks to their size, nobody has told this to the Savuti lions. To begin with, it seems that the lions used psychological warfare to intimidate and confuse the elephants: loud roaring in the dark.

The Lions of Savuti: Hunting with the Moon records something like 15 years of observations, and even in 1990 the Jouberts were estimating that about 20% of the Savuti lion's diet was made up of elephant. I would love to know if the behaviour goes back further than this, as I find it highly unlikely that this behaviour is something that the lions have 'just learnt'. Historically, Africa was filled with a lot more lions and a lot more elephants than it is now, and given the extraordinary behavioural flexibility of lions I suspect that elephant-killing is something that lions have practiced many many times in the near and distant past.

Hence, the mass/size of the bear is surpassed by the juvi elephant, as lions are only slightly shorter at the shoulder of a Kodiak, not even by a foot, yet that juvielephant above is taller at the shoulder ot the lion by nearly 3 feet: Elephant>>>Bear, so the bears size and weight is not significant enough to being dicisive, even though he has the same weapons via fangs and claws, the lion has superior agility, dexterterity, manverability, more athelthic, has more fighting experince, a better fighting tactics, stronger at the same time faster strikes, can endure more punishment due to a better durability factor, the mane protects the vital kills spot more effective with longer, densar hair... and is a around the clock pre-seasoned expert killer of mega faunas (Buffalo's Giraffes, Hippos, Rhinos an Elephants), while the bear specifically the elite Kodiak/Grizzly/Brown'ie Is a small game hunter and sub-vegetarian, things like grass, honey, fish, occaisionally deer, elk and moose, rarely on bison and even more so astronomically on adults.

As goes Carnivorias bear fanatics that claimed Kodiak vs 2 lions.

1 average sized male african lion vs 1 average sized Male Kodiak bear=50/50

2 vs 1= The bear slaughter'd
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Silver Prime

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bear fanatics just gota stop with the charade that bears are unstopable, acting like they're durability of thick fur x 1,500+ lbs of muscle/fat is impenatrable and can shrug off any blow from any animal with ease and retaliate with skull shaterring blows of his own. And that a grizzly bear (because of his great size) fears nothing therefore he is the most game and wont flea a fight even if hes losing. Lets show just how game and durable the bear is:

(Wild Bull kills huge grizzly bear)

The grizzly had no sooner abandoned his attack on the bull than the latter was on his feet, bearing himself aserect and as fierce as ever. "Giving his head a shake, he lowered it for the fourth time, and again charged. As the bull hurled himself against the grizzly the latter braced himself for a last desperate struggle. He struck out wildly with his paws and the bul' fell back with the force of the grizzly's blows. The bear sank to the ground. writhing in agony. The indomitable courage of the bull here prevailed. Blinded and crippled as he was, he dashed wildly at his foe again. With a last frantic effort the bear sought to make his escape, scrambling and staggering through the dust. But it was useless. His great strength was gone. The bull plunged his horns again and again into the huge form of the dying brute as he lay stretched helpless in the dust. The bear's muscles quivH1 THE BULL'S TRIUMPH. ered and contracted. He drew his immense paws up once or twice in convulsive clutches, raised his huge head, gave one agonizing groan and fell back dead.

(Saintbernard drives off attacking grizzly)


(Horse kills grizzly bear)

(Mule named Pete kills grizzly bear)

Photo of how a Mule looks like, half donkey half horse:

Down came the outstretched paws, and at that moment Pete seemed to become aware for the first time of the presence of the grizzly. He sprang forward, the paws struck only the air and then I saw a gray form double itself into a ball and bound upward. Out of that ball flew two legs, which shot back and forth with the rapidity of piston rods, going thump, thump upon the body of tho grizzly. Up and down went the body and back and forth went tho two pile drivers. The bear was struck all over, on his head, on his shoulder, on his side, on his paws. He fell in one direction and then in another. He was kicked into the air and pounded into the earth. The breath was driven out of him and life followed, and at length he lay upon the ground a shapeless mass, every bone in his body broken, while Pete had quietly returned to his interrupted grazing without a hair injured.

Wow, so much for the grizzly bears ultimate durability, a wild bull managed to plete the bears stamina, what happen bear fanatics, I thought the bears stamina and endurance was supposed to be unrivaled in the animal world? The bear tryed to make a last ditch effort and was savagely gored repeatively till he was dead, doesnt that sound like my opinion about the puma I made? Where if the bear is opt to run, he is so slow and not agile to make a retreat, giving away his back would prove fatal for any gamed animal, speaking of which...gameness comes from the inner power of will, you know...Pitbulls? Tp fight to the death...The bear is the least gamed animal here against the lion, puma, leopard ect, size doesnt equate to more durability and game, especially when the predators like lions/leopards wont target the body, they are preprogramed to target the face, neck, head and belly...even leopards have droped bengal tigers and polar bears:

(Herman Boger of Hagenbeck had a leopard named Puss, who was attacked by a massive male bengal tiger, in return the leopard ripped out his throat)

As I increased my group by bringing in new animals, of course, there were troubles. The creatures would fight, at times, and I had to make peace with the whip and the pistol. I have never used any red hot irons and don't approve of them. Sometimes a beast was killed. One of my very best performers is a leopard that has killed a cheetah, two boarhounds, a tiger and a polar bear,

The bears fur can still be penatrated:

In the main kill spots, (The throat and belly) the lion has even been shown to be reslient to bulls long sharp horns:

Intent on finishing the fight, the bull gores his adversary twice, but the shaggy mane and tough hide protect the lion, and instead of being killed he regains his feet.

The lion will not be like the tiger and stand bi-pedal while both lion/bear tee-off on each others body, going hook for hook in the body like boxers do, the lion is a head hunter, he strikes primarly for the face, neck and head, in that instance the bear will have a hardtime landing anything in that same notion, because the lion is more dexterious, agile, nimble on his feet, just because they are larger than leopards and jaguars, lions are part of the panthera line, they are extremely athelitic in manverability in high paced movements:

A bear although in running speed is quite fast, they cannot operate the same in close combat, the lion will out game him entirely, this is also why the lion was able to kill 2 large bears in a single blow, since bears are stiffly built and are not as flexible to roll with the punches, swat for swat even the lioness showed to floor a male bear.

And funny, how bear fanatics say the bear can just eat up any strikes without even being fazed by other animals, Pete the muel was stomping the shit out of that grizzly like no tomorrow, the bears bones were mangled and shapeless, what happen to the hundreds of forums where people say the bears bones are so dense they could eat a bullet to the head and or being so dense its like a steel club and malice striking so hard it could shatter a bulls skull?  Yeah right, thats why the bear has lost more times than vice versa to lions, cougars, and leopards, chased off by large dogs, pummel'd by bulls and kicked to death by donkeys. lol

Again, bears dont use there paws to strike a devastating blow like the lion usualy does:

bears don’t utilize there claws

All my wounds were, to the best of my belief, inflicted with his fangs.
This goes somewhat to corroborate the commonly received opinion in Sweden, that in attacking man, and beyond holding him fast with his claws, the bear never, in the manner of the lion or tiger, strikes with his paw, which they say is his usual habit when making his onset on horses and cattle.

The bear, which had been mortally wounded, gathered him in with a sweep of the forearm (it was not a blow) and bit him in the arm.

Heres another account where 3 vs 3 the lionesses kill one and injured another:

From Lemberg the Vienna correspondent of the 'Daily News' learns that a terrible battle has been fought at the railway sta tion at Rawaruska. A menagerie was being conveyed by rail, and when the train stopped at the station a great noise was heard. The guards went to the wagons containing the wild beasts, and found the wooden partitions which separated three lionesses from three bears, and these again from three hyenas broken down and the animals engaged in battle. One bear was missing. The lions had eaten him, skin and all. They had bitten another bear's paw off, and a hyena lay dead on the floor. Two lions in a' neighboring compartment remained calm. No one dared interfere between the fighting beasts, until the owner arrived in a sledge and -se- parated them — not before he had been bitten by a bear however. - He claims damages from the. railway administration because the partitions gave way. One of the judges, or presidents, of the Tribunal of the Seine in Paris has acquired celebrity owing to the rapidity with which he disposes of the divorce cases brought before him.

Dallas, a lion that was born a year ago. In a fight a polar bear can whip a lion easily, though most persons will be inclined to back the lion

Yeah, he could whip a young lion, not a maned one. Interesting bout:

(Start off)


(Herman Boger of Hagenbeck had a leopard named Puss, who was attacked by a massive male bengal tiger, in return the leopard ripped out his throat)

As I increased my group by bringing in new animals, of course, there were troubles. The creatures would fight, at times, and I had to make peace with the whip and the pistol. I have never used any red hot irons and don't approve of them. Sometimes a beast was killed. One of my very best performers is a leopard that has killed a cheetah, two boarhounds, a tiger and a polar bear,

More on Parnell vs Ramadan:

They were turned into an arena like a Spanish bull pen. And the lion flew at the bear instantly. The bear missed his lead and the lion landed on the jaw of his adversary and hung there. The bear tried a lot to uppercut the lion with both claws but he could not tear him loose. The fight was a rough-and-tumble, so there were no breakaway.

Presently the bear took a note form Shakespeare’s book and began to squeeze the king of beasts. When the grizzly got the pressure up to about 1,700 volts, the lion let go of his jaw hold in order to stick his tongue out and to get a breath of fresh air. He wiggled out of the bears embrace and went to his corner.

The second round was brief. The lion made a leap and the bear swung with both paws and the monarch of the African desert failed to land and returned.

In the In the third round the lion made another spring, got a swiping jolt from the bear's paw and withdrew for the third and last time. No self-respecting lion ever springs more than three times. This is well known. If he misses his Kill three times he throws up the sponge. When his work has been that lumpv there is not another spring left in him no more than if he were a wire mattress that had been worked for 50 years.

But Colonel Boone was not satisfied and he arranged another meeting. He starved the animals some more, and fetched them together again. He tried a new scheme. He pitched the bear a chunk of meat The lion promptly waltzed up and grabbed it, and the bear stood for his work. Another bologna was tossed to the representative of California prowess. The lion got up front where he was gnawing his calf’s liver and annexed that too, and the bear never made a protest. The bear seemed to have quit flat at the start. The contest was awarded to the lion on default and the bear was drummed out of the fighting fraternity. But Colonel Boone still holds his opinion about the California grizzly. Parnell was afterwards fought against four bulls, one at a time, and in the last encounter lost his life. The first bovine gladiator was old, and he was killed easily by the lion- The second and third made a better fight, but were put out of time in a little while, the fourth bull caught Parnell in the mouth with its horn and drove the horn up through the roof of the mouth into the lion's brain, killing him.

So what we got so far from Parnell, the lion killed 1 steer, 1 goat, 1 heifer, 2 men, 3 bulls, a small bear, Siskiyou a 850 lb bear, Monarch a 1,750 lb bear and stale mated a 700 lb bear named Ramadan before losing to Panthera the bull.

As goes weights, did they have a scale and weighed these animals? No, so they only guessed, as for pearys fight it said the lion weighed 500 and peary 550, I dont think thats true the lions manes whole purpose is to make him appear bigger, so if its common knowledge a full grown is 500 and the bear seems only slightly bigger, (while knowing they can get up to 2,000) then it would be assumed the bear was only a little heavier, yet no bear is gona look vastly larger on all fours than a lion with a large mane, but anyways, heres the rest of that fight:

The lion will probably recover, but the condition of the bear is desperate.

Again, I dont think Peary was that small, for a number of reasons, like above...lions have showed to take out polar bears and be the more dominant sometimes with ease taking out kodiaks and kamchatka bears, so a bear at near parity wont have this type of durability nor strength, no scales just assumptions since the lion looked of equal size, thats because the lion is the tallest panthera almost a foot taller (including the mane) than a siberian tiger, and theillustration shows the lion much smaller as well:

I mean take away the mane, and it would look twice as small as the bear, the polar bear is almost 5 feet at the shoulder, the lion 4 feet, (including the mane nearly 5 feet)...all in all, that fight was one of the better detailed fights, it showed the bear with his superior grappling, wrestling and strength, while it showed the lions superior speed and agility in evasive manuvering, shows the lion threw more paw swipes that did damage, and that the lions mane came in perfectly sheilding him from longer, thicker more deadly slashing like claws of the bear, toppled in by bear hugs could back-fire since it would lead to the lion going straight for the most vulnerable killing spot, the throat.

Everyone who debates this topic and backs the bear always says the bear will crush the lion how he crushes ice blocks in order to get to seals, crushes the lions skull with a stomp or bash of the paw, all these claims are false, they don't use there paws to strike a massive blow, they use it to wrestle, heres a fight showing no smashing of anything, not even attempts for throat grabs, just as we always see, nothing but grapplers and poor fighters:


Like the lion Roosevelt, he won't stand on his hind legs to grapple with the bear, so that tactics of bears is useless all its for is to push each other around and down, not to mention as majority of the accounts showed the lion bowled over the polar bears, its not because the lion is stronger, its because the lion is usally dormant in the 4 point stance like a table, its almost impossible to push over a table, youd have to flip it entirely from underneath, there are tripods then there are tables, ever heard of a two legged table/chair? No, because it offers no balance and trsucture to stand up on, the lion strikes in short quick burst, so unless the bear can clinch and catch him in that position, the lion will win the bout by a consistant series of paw swipes to the face in the 3 point stance of 90 degree angle, he doesnt exzert him self like the tiger, he takes it easy...the lion also has the better method of stamina, as pushing somthing with all your might like bears do, it showed how fast they got tired if you had to move a giant rock equal to your own weight, you'd get more tired faster than you hitting a punching bag. In the 4 point and 3 point stance the bear is utterly inferior, being slower, less agile and flexible and strkes much weaker. The lion will go in and out and repeatively hammer the bear with stronger more useful blows, when it comes to biting, the bear hardly goes for the throat, for the lion...its one of his expertise, the bear will take a occaisonal pass at the neck, the lion will tire his foe out with strikes first, than when exhuasted, the lion will sink in a more garentee'd bite.

Measure it your self by looking at their necks fur and hair:

Bears can attain heavier weights than lions, but all the mass and size is distributed into there lower halfs, mainly the stomach and back area, lions have all the mass distributed to there frontal quarters. Black, brown and polar bears necks are the same circumfrences of a persons waste (as shown in the photos), the fur is about 1-3 inches thick, the lions neck is just as thick as grizzly bears necks, and their circumfrence of the mane is of two to even three times that of the trainers body, and is over a foot and a half thick.
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Silver Prime

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two more cases mountain lions have killed bears:

The lion had buried its teeth in the bear's throat, and before he could move a paw in self-defeuso had torn him literally into shreds with its powerful, sharp claws. The whole thing had happened so quickly that I had scarce time to catch my breath when the fight was over, the bear dead, and the lion gone. The bear's ribs were torn asunder and one of the sharp claws had cuthia heart in two. His intestiaes were threads, and the grass and brush for ten feet around were covered with hair, hide, and blood. I think the American lion is the quickest thing on earth.

mountain lion kills bear in fair fight

Mule beats up bear

Mountain lion beats bear

puma kills bear

bear kills pumas cubs, puma than slaughters entire family of bears

In a fair fight A pair of mountain lions can kill a bear in fact have been known to do so when defending their young

He was wounded and bleeding profusely from a deep gash in his breast; great strings of hide dangled loosely from his sides, where the bear had tried to hug him. Blood poured from Bruin's neck as he caved up and down before the ledge, and I noticed that one arm hung limp and helpless. But he was none the less eagei for the next assault as he cried in impotent rage. ; The tawny brute above him licked the bWd from his horrid mouth and again sprang at the bear's throat; but he received a stunning blow on his head, and went spinning. Following up his advantage,Bigfoot piled on and endeavored to hug him. I saw the lion's back heave and straighten convulsively; the bear delivered a powerful blow, then broke away. He reared upright as the lion flew at his throat. I saw the bear's entrails fall out upon the ground, where they were literally torn away by his feet. Again the lion sought the safety of the shelf of rock, as the famous Bigfoot fell dead. My tawny deliverer sat and licked hla many wounds,

and a account a african lion killed a bear:

The Kane Republican from Kane, Pennsylvania · Page 2 Wednesday, July 18, 1917

Lion Kills Bear. In a phorl battle at the carnival grounds in Corry Monday night. bettween members of the bear and the lion families the latter was returned the victor an Having delivered a vicious assault on the bruin's head quarters. There was nothing to the skirmish, for the bear was outclassed outgeneraled and outslugged and never had a ghost of a show with the African jungle King, it was all over in the twinkling of an eye and the bear lay quite dead on the floor of his cage which the lion had invaded in making the attack.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: lion weight vs tiger weight Reply with quote

I would like some debates on lion vs tiger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why tiger would never be the king of the beast
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More photos on captives indochinoises tigers

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